Penn Badgley Thinks There’s No Such Thing as Nothing
Actor (You) and podcast host (Podcrushed) Penn Badgley hops on the train and drops a cosmic take that spirals into a full-blown philosophy session. Is “nothing” just a myth? Are we using the word to avoid meaning? Do teenagers secretly care when they say they don’t? Kareem and Penn go deep on existence, the Big Bang, and whether oppressive emptiness is actually just… something. Nothing makes sense. Which means everything does. Credits Host: Kareem Rahma Guest: Penn Badgley Creators: Kareem Rahma & Andrew Kuo Camera: Anthony DiMieri & Thomas Kasem Lim Editor: Tyler Christie Mixer: Dale Eisinger Associate Producer: Ramy Shafi Artwork: Andrew Lawandus Theme Music: Tyler McCauley
Summary
Penn Badgley drops a cosmic bomb on Kareem: there's no such thing as nothing. Everything is something. The You star and Podcrushed host gets philosophical fast, arguing that even when teenagers say "I don't care," they care precisely because they're saying it. Kareem struggles to keep up as Penn spirals through the Big Bang, the vacuum of space, and whether "nothing" is just a word we use to avoid acknowledging what's actually there. Penn's wildest claim? If there was a nothing so pervasive that nothing could exist within it, that oppressive emptiness would be the equivalent of something. It's confusing. It's profound. Kareem can barely hang on, finally joking that Penn's operating on a plane of vibes few can reach. "This is what you get when you don't go to any school," he quips. Nothing makes sense, which might mean everything does.
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Full Transcript
So, what's your take? That there is no such thing as nothing. There is no such thing as nothing. 100% disagree. Look. Okay. All right. Something. No, I'm saying there's no such thing as nothing.
Oh, so everything is something. Yeah. Yeah.
Oh, so I—So I do 100%. Yeah, you—I think you 100% agree. No. And and and to me at least to me it's deeper than that cuz it's like, you know, try to conceptualize of nothing in any manner. Try try to describe it. Just black like when you close your eyes.
Oh wow. That's a profound something. Oh my goodness. Wait, so I do 100% agree. There is no such thing as nothing. Everything is something. Is that what you're saying? Everything is something. I mean, I'm saying even more than that because I think what we—Yeah. So it's like, you know, we talk about like we use the word in a way that I think undermines our ability to conceive of a brighter future. We use the word nothing.
Yeah. We we say there's nothing there. We we we learn to use the word in a way that I think dismisses the incredible existence of of everything and I actually think in some way it undermines again our ability to imagine a brighter future like you know for humanity.
Okay. So how elaborate on that. Okay. So it's similar to the way teenagers will be like I don't care. They say that specifically when they care. I have a 16-year-old so I know this you know. So, so and so when you say, "Oh, there's nothing there." It's it's dismissing in a profound way, casual way, it's dismissing acknowledgement of what is and maybe it is a defense mechanism that we are using to avoid the something.
I think that's what— Yeah, I think on one hand that is what it is.
Only on one hand. Yeah. I mean, because even the vacuum of space, you know, I mean, I just think like there's there's so many levels to it. I don't know how to—there must no there must be some kind of nothing.
Yes. In science I just think that in science the possibilities are limitless and endless. So if I if Stephen Hawking was here right here with us rip uh he would probably say like I don't know we'll have to Google it. Audience you Google it. There must be a theory of nothing. I really think that there must be so here's so here's this part I have thought about. If there was if there was a nothing so um pervasive that within it nothing could exist that is the equivalent of something so oppressively existing because it doesn't permit for existence. You know what I mean?
Like no I don't I'm trying to follow I do I I agree with your statement and I want to I want to be more in cahoots. I want to be more in cahoots with you. I I want to be on your level. You're you're you're existing on a a plane of vibes that is very difficult to achieve. That's a that's flattering. That's flattering. Um so if we if we think of like you know the big bang, what was before it? They say nothing. Well, okay. But so that nothing would have been so pervasive that nothing existed, which is to say that it's such a complete and total and universal oppression of existence that that's the equivalent of like 100% something. That's, you know what I mean? It's like it's like it's not nothing at all. And also, I don't know that's even true. Either way, there's no such thing as nothing.
Dr. Pen and Dr. Pen, this is what you get when you don't go to any school.